AU Computer Gaming Club :: View topic - TigerLAN 12 Pricing Model Changes

AU Computer Gaming Club

TigerLAN - Past - TigerLAN 12 Pricing Model Changes

jokeyxero - Jan 31, 2007 - 10:53 PM
Post subject: TigerLAN 12 Pricing Model Changes

There will probably be pricing changes to TigerLAN 12.
Well, there is and there isn't.
It will still be $10 to game plus $10 to compete.
However, no more "Ladies game for free."

It seems the "Ladies game for free" part could be determined discrimination and since AUCGC isn't a private organization we can't do that sort of thing.

Ack, Dr. Knight, and I will be shooting emails back and forth on the topic over the next few days.

A Task for You
The original purpose of the "ladies game for free" pricing model was to help diversify gaming community participation. "Free" gets heads in the door, a head in the door is more likely to come back through the door again or go out and participate in other ways. Community participation in gaming increases the usefulness (and fun) of AUCGC. Blah blah blah, you get the idea. As I'm sure everyone has noticed, the cultural background of the gaming community is quite diverse, the lacking component is the gender/sex diversity. That's not to say that females don't game, just that the gaming community is predominately male. The closer a community's diversity make-up is to that of the world as a whole, the more rounded and stronger the community becomes. And why do we want the gaming community to become stronger and rounded? Because we love games.

Anyway, we need suggestions on ways to improve the community's diversity through TigerLAN. (Note that there is a correlation between the community and the club, but TigerLAN is not about club, it is about community.)

General suggestions to improve TigerLAN attendance would also be welcomed.

So far we have these ideas:
Boys vs Girls team competition
New Club members game for free

CDplaya - Feb 01, 2007 - 05:41 PM
Post subject: RE: TigerLAN 12 Pricing Model Changes

"Ladies game for free" isn't discriminatory at all. All we are doing is helping to integrate the gaming community. There is nothing wrong for giving incentives to a group of people that most assume would never show up in the first place. (i.e. normally I don't attend campus politics meetings, but they were giving away free pizza one day so...) We know that there are enough male gamers that would pay to play, but there was at least one female at the last TigerLAN that only showed up because she could play for free. On a side note, I would only call discrimination if females get to compete for free, but as far as I know they don't.

Ack - Feb 01, 2007 - 06:32 PM
Post subject: RE: TigerLAN 12 Pricing Model Changes

In the past, females were allowed entry to TigerLAN for free, though they still had to pay to compete. And xero is right, the reasons we did this were to promote females learning about gaming. Remember, the purpose of the club has always been to promote gaming amongst the community, either by introducing the concept of gaming to people, teaching about various types of games and genres out there, or by helping a group of people come together so that they have friends they can play games with. For years, the gaming community has been comprised of younger males, though recent trends state otherwise.

According to the ESA, currently 69% of all Americans play games, the average age of which is 33 years old. 38% of all those gamers happen to be female. When going further in depth, the numbers become closer. An average female gamer plays games 7.4 hours a week, whereas an average male plays 7.6 hours. Women over the age of 18 form a higher percentage of the gaming community than boys age 17 and younger...the numbers form a growing trend.

Since the policy has been questioned, it would seem now is a good time to update with the times. Females will no longer be allowed in for free, because this policy has been seen as possibly discriminatory towards men. For the records, we've never received an official complaint, but that does not mean that the policy isn't outdated. Instead, we are debating other possible benefits for gamers, though no longer based on gender. Please feel free to post any ideas you may have on how to make TigerLAN better for everyone involved, and we look forward to your ideas.

kurtmax_0 - Feb 01, 2007 - 08:19 PM
Post subject: RE: TigerLAN 12 Pricing Model Changes

I'll file a complaint then.

I AM TEH BEAN DESCRAMANITED AT ZMG!

jokeyxero - Feb 02, 2007 - 01:59 AM
Post subject: RE: TigerLAN 12 Pricing Model Changes

You deserve it kurt. j/k

Let's try to keep it toward real posts in this one ;oP

Coyote - Feb 02, 2007 - 07:08 AM
Post subject: RE: TigerLAN 12 Pricing Model Changes

i dunno.. this really punishes the males... I mean face it, girls who will put up with us are hard to come by...

PhukFace - Feb 02, 2007 - 02:57 PM
Post subject: Re: RE: TigerLAN 12 Pricing Model Changes

Coyote wrote:

girls who will put up with us are hard to come by...

i disagree...

Coyote - Feb 02, 2007 - 03:14 PM
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Face... come on... you have got to be the poster boy for this comment! You have to have the most understanding woman on the face of this earth. It boggles my mind.

PhukFace - Feb 02, 2007 - 03:55 PM
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whos to say she really exists?

jokeyxero - Feb 03, 2007 - 03:54 AM
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Remember that comment about keeping this thread on topic?

Rebirth - Feb 03, 2007 - 05:20 AM
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jokeyxero - Feb 03, 2007 - 06:43 PM
Post subject: RE: woohoo! first female to comment!

Yeah, the bars and clubs use the idea that if girls show up there will be guys, and guys and girls buying lots of drinks for various reasons. It really has nothing to do with the bars helping people hook up. It's about money, exploiting dating trends. But to most people it looks like dating help. That wasn't really our idea, though we knew how it could look like that if we weren't careful. We struggled with a way to phrase it so that it didn't seem like a "Ladies night." "Ladies play for free" was the best we could do and still be PC but it still seems like "Ladies' night". Scrapping it altogether I think is just going to be a good idea.

From our talks it seems the best course of action for diversity for us is to completely ignore gender. (I could rant why (and have) but I'll save it for another time.) While it makes perfect sense on one hand it also means we have to be conscious not to advertise with the stereotypical male gamer advertisements (read: large breasts and double entendres). Club is a part of the community and I think will naturally reflect that community as it grows. With that in mind it seems that we are just going to focus on base membership.

We've had ideas thrown around about existing members benefits to TigerLAN and possibly a work-for-play discount. We should probably actually wrap those email discussions up; I would guess that Dr. Knight is tired of reading general membership ideas as opposed to the topic he started. That of course means the details get thrown into this thread as needed...

Rebirth - Feb 04, 2007 - 08:21 PM
Post subject: just so you know...

Just so it's clear, when I said "...I interpreted..."

I meant I was coming from a view that the marketing was immoral, outdated, and discriminatory. Immoral- promising sex, etc.; outdated- unoriginal and insulting to some; discriminatory- implying the bars are male-oriented thus excluding privileges for the majority gender.

Also, I was trying to come from a viewpoint of females who do not consider the marketing to be simple marketing, but rather intending exactly what the marketing implies- all the three above.

I guess the reason I'm replying to this is because I didn't see how there could be a view saying, "well, that's not the intent," because concerning the problem I am talking about, considering the true intent of the marketing while getting past the stigma attached is nigh impossible for some people to do. See how many guys complain about the double standard? They are not considering anything beyond what they think is fair. I just felt like pointing that out.

Coyote - Feb 04, 2007 - 08:36 PM
Post subject: RE: just so you know...

Well do all the club members get grandfather'd in for a tigerlan since we never got to play for free? I help setup and still have to pay.

Also, who's to say that things like what we have done is WHY the gaming community is becoming more diverse? I posted it as a joke, but it is true. The fact that girls are encouraged to be there encourages guys to be there. It did work. (Ashley is considering not going now, and I can't blame her.) LAN tournaments typically carry a hardcore gamer demograph, one that any sane person would scoff at, especially females. However being exposed to some of the hardest levels of gaming makes the fringe look not so bad. To boot, if guys had to choose between two identical tigerlans, one where girls played free, and one where they didn't, the girls play free would win out. Marketing is nature, wildlife market themselves all the time for mating and power.

I guess I just don't see the problem in this other than political correctness. When it comes down to it, it encourages females to participate and helps bring in males utilizing a basic principle of man, and don't think for a second that it wouldn't work the same way around with an event that primarily attracts females.

I also have to make an argument for if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Who has complained? Didn't this change cause more problems?

P.S. I would like to see the statistics off of last years tigerlan, because last time I check "Diversity" according to every idealist on the planet is said to be a perfect balance. Last time I looked around a tigerlan there definetely weren't as many females as males, meaning by definition that the field isn't yet "diversified".

Geist - Feb 04, 2007 - 09:43 PM
Post subject: RE: just so you know...

Last time I checked 38% of the people there were not females. The definition of a gamer are two different things between guys and girls. Girls typically define themselves as a gamer if they play games, no matter how much or little they played or what they played. I just play nintendo games everyonce in a while and I considered myself a gamer until I saw how much U.G. played, AND THEN I saw how much GAMERS played. Now I don't think I am considered a gamer.

Also, I wouldn't have gone to the last tigerlan if I had to pay. I don't really know if I am going to go this year, because I don't go for the same reasons as the majority. I don't go to compete, I just go to hang out and play small games on my laptop. If I have to pay $10 to do that I would rather just sit in my own room and do the same thing. I don't take offense to the "ladies game for free". I get to game for free and it brings more guys in to game and pay.

D.I.E. - Feb 05, 2007 - 03:23 AM
Post subject: RE: just so you know...

If any of the other females (that come infrequently) could post their opinion as well we might be able to find a better solution than our previous slogan. The new idea of all New Members play for free is a good idea except for the possibility of more than once per person.

Rebirth - Feb 05, 2007 - 08:05 AM
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Ack - Feb 05, 2007 - 02:20 PM
Post subject: RE: how?

Well, if you really want to know, it was Dr. Knight who brought it to our attention. He's the club's faculty adviser.

And instead of new members playing for free, we think it should instead be full members, as in members who have payed all their club dues. It might actually make you guys pay dues, because frankly, most of you don't. Sure, TigerLAN may take a small hit with the funding, but if we do better with our advertising, perhaps we can make up for the losses.

And as a matter of fact, even I don't get into TigerLAN for free, and I run the bloody thing. Hell, I don't let xero in without paying, and he founded it.

PhukFace - Feb 05, 2007 - 03:23 PM
Post subject: RE: how?

i think we should have a senior citizen discount...

RugerMK1 - Feb 05, 2007 - 05:14 PM
Post subject: RE: how?

I'd prefer a DDR master discount for individuals such as myself. Think about it!

Rebirth - Feb 05, 2007 - 07:12 PM
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....

Coyote - Feb 05, 2007 - 09:09 PM
Post subject: RE: maybe...?

I do have to ask why Dr. Knight has anything to do with this seeing how TigerLAN and gamers are suppose to be two seperate entities.

Ack - Feb 05, 2007 - 11:51 PM
Post subject: RE: maybe...?

That's because TigerLAN is paid for with what is technically club's funds. The AUCGC is a part of Auburn University, a state and nationally funded institution...so technically, it's government money we're using. So that means, to a small degree, the government is funding TigerLAN. Hence why we're having this problem.

As for Rebirth's question, I'll answer that at home.

PhukFace - Feb 06, 2007 - 01:06 AM
Post subject: RE: how?

yeah ruger you should get half off...

jokeyxero - Feb 06, 2007 - 04:20 AM
Post subject: RE: how?

Ruger...Face...omg. lol Let's not let the details of that get on the forums, I'm not sure if we could ever smooth that out if there was a complaint. ;oP Btw, it should only be 25% off.

Btw, face, you just hit the G0dlike post count...500 ftw.

Actual intent and perceived intent have a history of being greatly divided.

TigerLAN and AUCGC are not two separate things. Funds are generally kept separate but that is just a decision we made a long time ago, but isn't strictly enforced considering how little dues get paid. AUCGC runs TigerLAN, every aspect of it. The only real difference is TL is open to the public where weekly meetings are limited to AU students, faculty, and alumni, with the occasional guests. Any rule that applies to club applies to TL and vice versa.

Hey, we're losing business due to the lack of "ladies night" just like Willie's Wings was losing business because he wouldn't take TigerCard--does that mean we have just as shady of a lawsuit? j/k omg.one.

Strangel - Mar 11, 2007 - 11:46 PM
Post subject: RE: how?

You could take a different approach...
have some promotion that is attractive MAINLY to the type of person you're targeting (and not nearly as attractive to others), but not a straight-out exemption.
I have no examples to give you, but I just wanted to suggest that using such an approach would not be clearly discriminatory, whilst still attracting the people you wish to attract.
That's really all I've got, though. I didn't think the "ladies game for free" was hurting anyone, though I can see why technically it could be considered discriminatory.

Bandit - Mar 12, 2007 - 01:46 AM
Post subject: RE: how?

To say ladies can game for free, is only discriminatory to men. If no men complain then we have no problem. Have we had a complaint? Or do we have a faculty member being cautious? I think the latter.

And finally, technically NO ONE has to pay. It is a donation to the club event. However if you want to compete you are participating in a contest and should contribute toward the prizes, thus the reason for a cost.

What specifically is Dr. Knight worried about occurring if we don't remove the ad?

kurtmax_0 - Mar 12, 2007 - 02:54 AM
Post subject: RE: how?

Oh I see how it works... it's only discriminatory towards men. Then it doesn't matter.....

(Actually, I don't really care tbh)

Rebirth - Mar 12, 2007 - 05:29 AM
Post subject: RE: how?

The president (so I've heard) made a promise in his campaign to crack down on discrimination all over the university. It is not advertised now, but apparently small measures have been taken to change some wordings and whatnot. I heard from a university employee of some odd emails sent out to administration that included the subject of gender discrimination, though I'm not sure what that really entailed.
And kurtmax, once again, I think you've missed a point... maybe you're just that stubborn.

So yea, it seems that some faculty are being "cautious" because they promised a change, and they're following through. Here's a strange point, though: If most gamers were black, would it be justified to have a policy stating "White guys play free"...only to increase diversity, of course :p

*devil's advocate*

Bandit - Mar 12, 2007 - 12:24 PM
Post subject: RE: how?

Let's not get into what is right or wrong. Morals and rules are two separate things. What we are dealing with right now are rules.

Bandit - Mar 12, 2007 - 12:25 PM
Post subject: RE: how?

OK in that case we have no choice but to remove the line from the flyer. However there is nothing stopping some enterprising young males from paying for all the girls that show up.

Coyote - Mar 12, 2007 - 03:47 PM
Post subject: RE: how?

/me longs for the days when this topic was dead.

kurtmax_0 - Mar 12, 2007 - 10:37 PM
Post subject: Re: RE: how?

Coyote wrote:

/me longs for the days when this topic was dead.

Hahah... and rebirth, I was just making a pointless statement like I usually do. Please don't take me seriously....

D.I.E. - Mar 12, 2007 - 11:38 PM
Post subject: Re: RE: how?

kurtmax_0 wrote:

Please don't take me seriously....

For now on we can always refer to this statement on how to listen to kurtmax. Cool

fastbilly1 - Mar 12, 2007 - 11:45 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: how?

Beat me to it DIE. Kurt even you must admit you left yourself quite open right there...must resist from making goji/face comment...

kurtmax_0 - Mar 12, 2007 - 11:58 PM
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Yeah I know... I actually expected about 5 posts by now. Oh well Sad

PhukFace - Mar 13, 2007 - 12:27 AM
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you guys are childish and should learn to grow up.

Rebirth - Mar 13, 2007 - 06:50 AM
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negative attention is still attention....

Dark_Chick - Mar 26, 2007 - 02:40 PM
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Well, if I remember correctly....(correct me if i'm wrong) I think that for the last two times I was the Only girl who actually came to (play) and paid to compete. Actually I think there was one other girl that played but I don't think she stayed long. I'll still be coming of course, I'm just not sure how many other girls will come now if they have to pay.

vandyl - Mar 26, 2007 - 04:05 PM
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-_-

PhukFace - Mar 26, 2007 - 04:43 PM
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Dark_Chick wrote:

but i was there once.

Bandit - Mar 26, 2007 - 05:08 PM
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If I remember correctly, TigerLan is a donation strongly encouraged event, but not required.

vandyl - Mar 26, 2007 - 06:02 PM
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You're right, but now that we've upgraded our location (a little bit) and the university changed some of it's policies (I think) - we have incurred a cost that we try to offset by charging a fee for participation.

Dark_Chick - Mar 29, 2007 - 12:24 AM
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Quote:

If I remember correctly, TigerLan is a donation strongly encouraged event, but not required

Thanks.......I hope you didn't think I was being smart, I was just stating that I don't mind paying at all.
It's all good.......

Bandit - Mar 29, 2007 - 12:29 AM
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I wouldn't worry too much about me getting upset about how you come off. I'm rather sure if you asked anyone they would laugh if you asked about coming off the wrong way to me.

Dark_Chick - Mar 29, 2007 - 12:33 AM
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fastbilly1 - Mar 29, 2007 - 12:44 AM
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Dont forget, bandit is just a cruel old man who likes to offer children candy and ice cream, then eats it himself as soon as they come near. Or atleast thats what Ive been telling people.

Dark_Chick - Mar 29, 2007 - 12:57 AM
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Wow........those poor children..... Crying or Very sad

Bandit - Mar 29, 2007 - 01:52 AM
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And I deny those charges....

for the most part.

Ack - Mar 29, 2007 - 04:18 AM
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But they're still true.

Bandit is also currently training his child for world domination.

fastbilly1 - Mar 29, 2007 - 10:44 AM
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Well who can fault him for that? Lord knows Ive been training mine to devish acts of destruction whilst pinning it on the nearest person who is name starts with an H. It is the only way to do it correctly.

Right, back to my saturn shumps.

PhukFace - Mar 29, 2007 - 12:42 PM
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hector
howard
henry
hank
hakeem
hal
harold
henriette
helga

interesting concept.

jokeyxero - Mar 30, 2007 - 10:58 PM
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We don't charge fees, there are ways to get in and participate for free (at least there used to be). Certain donations can get you access to certain features of the LAN party. It's a subtle difference but matters to Foy.